Track Star creator Jack Coyne goes double or nothing

“If you can name the artist, you win five bucks.”

These ten little words are said by host Jack Coyne at the start of almost every Track Star episode. The show’s premise is simple: Listen to a snippet of a song, name the artist, and win money, going double-or-nothing with each round.

Since its inception, Track Star has racked up hundreds of millions of views on Instagram and TikTok, and has even had artists like Olivia Rodrigo and Kings of Leon on as contestants. It’s the brainchild of Coyne, Henry Kornaros, and Kieran Coyne, the trio behind Public Opinion, a New York City-based media company that also has another eponymous show that focuses on New York trivia.

The three created their game shows after noticing how many shows were “sort of either mean-spirited or ‘gotcha,’” Coyne said.

“I think that's the thing that resonated with a lot of people about our shows. They are sort of a celebration instead of making fun.”

We chatted with Coyne about how his team perfected Track Star’s interview style, how their celebrity appearances come about (and if he goes easy on them!), and how his company is working towards its goal of becoming “the voice of New York City.”

What’s your earliest memory of listening to music?

My earliest memory of listening to music: In the car, with family, we used to get these tapes that were catered towards kids, like Raffi. I was three years old. It was like Barney the Dinosaur-type soundtrack stuff. I remember hearing “Puff the Magic Dragon,” and knowing about the movie, but not knowing about Peter, Paul, and Mary. That kind of kids folk stuff. I remember hearing Carole King really early on. My parents would play kids music that was sort of folk-centric.

Wow, this is triggering major memories. I really haven’t thought about this in so long.

How has that music shaped you? How has Raffi shaped you?

It’s funny because I didn’t think about it all this time and now I’m like, “Wow.” Now that I’m 33, I’m listening to more Americana, folk music and I have a newfound appreciation for that that I didn’t have before. It’s come full circle in a couple ways.

You’re from New York! How do you think that’s shaped the way you see the city and its people?

New York is not like New York City to me. It’s just home. A lot of people see New York as a place that they go to that’s wow, crazy buildings, eye-popping for the first time you come. For me, it’s just the default. Going somewhere that’s not New York City, like the country, is much more exciting and unique to me. I take it all in and I really appreciate how amazing the city is and how much it changes all of the time.

Before we get into Track Star, I’d love to talk about Public Opinion, the company. Why did you create Public Opinion?

We created Public Opinion—myself and my two partners—to basically pool together the work that we’ve been doing independently and put it under one umbrella. We could get a bigger studio space and chip in and help each other on projects, and essentially carve out more time for ourselves to do original shows. We were like, “How can we afford to develop an original show and invest in that? We need to come together and put our brains together and our walls together to make that happen.

You do advertising on the side. Is advertising the focus or are the shows the focus?

It’s both. Advertising continues to help us pay for stuff and we get to do really exciting work that we’re proud of. Not everything is about the show all the time. It’s nice to be able to counterbalance that with a commercial I directed starring this guy from “The Bear”, Lionel Boyce. That doesn’t appear on Track Star or Public Opinion, my face is not in it, but it’s another creative outlet. Getting to flex those creative muscles is fun and helps reinvigorate the stuff that we’re doing on the shows. 

I watched your earlier YouTube videos and it was interesting to see the videos you were making, trying to figure out Public Opinion’s niche on the internet. What helped your team and you figure out the direction you wanted to take it?

It went from, we started the company, we moved into the space in April/May. We didn’t make anything, we were just doing commercial projects. And I was like, we need to make something, so let's figure it out. Okay, what can we do? Let's start making YouTube videos where we talk about what we're doing. Let's just force ourselves to make a video every week.

And then, okay, there's this trivia concept. Let's try and do that and just get out there. Let's just try and put stuff on all the platforms all the time and just see what sticks. It was an exercise of “We need to make something every week. What can we do?”

Then it became kind of boring, us sitting around talking about ourselves. We’re not necessarily boring to the audience, but it was boring to us. We wanted to tell stories about something that was a little bit more interesting and exciting to us. Because we were doing trivia questions, it sort of naturally led to, “What are these other questions we can ask? What happens when you flush the toilet?” We were just curious about answering those questions and trying to do it in a cool video format. One thing led to the next.

With the trivia format, that didn’t come out of nowhere, right?

It came out of this desire to go out and shoot stuff. How are we going to get people to talk to us? First, we went out and we tried to get people to talk to us with microphones. We’d say, “Can I interview you?” and people said “Sure.” Then I was like, “I don't really have anything good to ask you. How's life?”

We needed a structure to get people to be interested in what we were trying to have a conversation about. I was literally looking out the window and thinking, “Well, we're in New York. We could ask questions about this.”

When it came to Track Star, what made you want to create this interview series? Where did the premise of Track Star come from?

Finding people who know the answers to these questions about New York City is hard. A lot of people are tourists or people saying, “I can't do this because I don't know the answers.” Or not even rejection, but people saying, “Okay, I'll try and answer these,” but then they just don't really know the answers. It's not that interesting of a video. You're relying on finding someone who knows a lot of niche New York history to make the video interesting. 

And so it was like, well, what's something that's more universal? Music is universal. Everyone knows music. At one point, I think there were music-related questions in the [Public Opinion] trivia. I started asking this kid about Bob Dylan and he was like, “Who's Bob Dylan?” I'm like, “You don't know who Bob Dylan is? What?” That's kind of an interesting concept. Because if you go up to someone, ask them about Bob Dylan, are they going to know about him or not? And can you have a conversation on that? That's how Track Star was born.

Was there any thought of doing a topic that wasn’t music? Like movies?

It was always music.

How did you perfect Public Opinion’s and Track Star’s specific interview style?

Years and years of making content, and understanding editing and rhythm and pace and how to get a story across quickly. Another thing was before we ever started, understanding, what are you watching on social media? It always has a hook that keeps you interested. That's where the money and game show aspect comes in. Can you get the song? How much money is this person gonna win? How far are they gonna go? It's engineered to draw you in.

In terms of the interview style and talking to people, I noticed that a lot of stuff that I was watching was sort of either mean-spirited or “gotcha” or sort of making fun. And we did that on our very first Public Opinion video. Someone said something really stupid and we posted that because it was funny. The comments were like, “This person's an idiot. Why would you think that?” and it got crazy viral. It wasn't that mean-spirited, but I was like, “Instead of doing this, what if we celebrated people and made this have this super positive message?”

I think that's the thing that resonated with a lot of people about our shows. They are sort of a celebration instead of making fun.

That’s rare in this man-on-the-street-type content, right? A lot of times that stuff is like, how much money do you make? What's your job? How rich are you? Are you hot? Is this person hot? How do you rate this? It can be gamified in a negative way. We wanted to sort of be a counterbalance to that.

You were saying before that you’ve interviewed people that might not have gotten far with the game or don’t know too much. Out of all of the interviews that you’ve done, how many were ones that you were like, “This isn’t gonna go”?

On Public Opinion, I would say probably 20% of the people we interviewed were posted. Maybe 10% of the people we talked to were really good and we could post. And on Track Star, it's probably 70% of people who interview, we can post. To me, it just says music is universal and it's easier for people to talk about, right? The music concept carries the show a lot more. 

With Public Opinion. I have to carry it a lot more. And the interaction and the random person that we randomly meet on the street has to be particularly interesting. Whereas, when you hear an amazing Beatles song, you're like, “Oh, okay, I love this song. Let's keep going. Let's watch more.”

How do you pick the songs to spotlight on the show?

When we started, I put together playlists of my favorite songs and songs that I think that everyone should know. Kind of went through Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest Artists and said, “Okay, these are songs most people know.” I did that for a long time, went through that whole playlist, played all those songs, and then ran out of that stuff.

We found that episodes that were more theme-structured, 70s rock or 80s techno or 90s Pop, brought people in more, so then it started becoming a lot more theme-based. I'll ask someone, “Hey, what kind of music do you listen to the most? Give me a genre” and they'll say, “Oh, I really like 2000 folk.” Or I'll ask, “When did you graduate from college?” and they'll say, “2006.” So then I'll go on Apple Music or Spotify and search “2006 Hits.” And then they're like, “I remember when this song came out!” It's trying to figure out what's going to trigger the best response from people. You want them to win as much as possible until you want them to lose.

What makes a great Track Star contestant?

Someone who's excited and has a good reaction. As they're listening to the music, they're feeling the music. And they're responding to it and they're animated about it.

Who’s a favorite contestant of yours? What made them stand out?

I don’t think I have one. I love talking to people. I think we’ve had so many great people. We’ve done like 250 episodes, probably, and talked to so many people.

Track Star has featured a variety of people on the show, including notable artists. I remember the first time I saw someone and thought, “Oh, you’re a famous singer.”

Who was that?

I think it was Ed Sheeran, but I feel like it was someone before then. I remember the Olivia Rodrigo episode because I distinctly remember thinking I could’ve gotten further than her. And I remember seeing the comments and everyone was like, “They’re doing her a favor! The songs are too easy!”

Do you think that too? You think I was too easy on her?

I thought so. But there are episodes with an artist as the contestant and I would have no idea what the answers are, so it’s been a great mix. There’s a conspiracy that when there’s an important artist on the show, you guys are picking an easy song.

I'm going to be completely transparent with you about how that works because I think we should set the record straight. When it's someone who is a known artist, I know going into the conversation who the person is, so I'll prepare songs that I think they're going to have a good response to. Whereas if I just talked to a random person on the street, I have to come up with a song on the spot, live. It's harder to find the song that the person is gonna have an amazing reaction to when you're doing it on the spot in front of them. 

So yeah, the songs are pre-selected to a certain extent for the known artists. But it’s not necessarily easier songs or harder songs. I'm just always trying to make songs that are going to have the most interesting conversation attached to them.

I did want to talk more about when you’re having those notable artists. How did those collaborations come to be? Did they reach out to you? Did you reach out to them?

They reached out to us. Every artist that has been on the show has come to us.

How does that feel, to be kind of on the press circuit?

It felt cool to have someone say, “Oh, Olivia Rodrigo loves your show. She wants to go on.” That’s awesome, that’s exciting. Now, you realize you’re actually just part of this ecosystem of marketing music and that can feel a bit transactional. Are you using us to sell a song? Because that’s not really what this is about. We enjoy having conversations with artists, but we’re not in the business of trying to sell a shitty album.

Is there anything enlightening you’ve learned after filming this show for a year?

So much, oh my God.  I didn't know anything about the music business. Now, I know everything about it. I know every record label, how everything works. But the enlightening thing about the show is that people are nice and positive. There’s just so many nice, great people out there. The world can be a negative, scary, sad place, but the reality of when you're talking to people every day on the street is, people are really kind and want to get along with each other.

Is there anything surprising that you’ve learned?

It's definitely surprising how often I'll play a Beatles song to someone young and they'll be like, “Uhhhh…” And I'm like, “You don't recognize the sound of the Beatles? Isn't that like a universal thing that everyone knows?” That's pretty surprising.

Is there anything new you’d want to try for Track Star?

We’re doing a newsletter soon. [Editor’s note: The newsletter has launched since this interview was conducted.] We’re excited about that, we’re in the process of developing it. And then we’re working on a performance-based show here in the studio, inviting artists who come on the show to play music. And then this year, we’re going to travel a lot more and bring the show to different places.

We’re anxious to keep the show fresh, and always make it seem like we’re evolving and doing new and exciting stuff, not just the same old thing over and over again. In a way, we have just hit one note for a year and it’s been working great so far, but I think it’s time for us to start evolving and doing more.

What is the newsletter about?

It’s taking what people like about Track Star and then adding layers on top of that. Track Star is a game people play. As much as it’s a minute to watch, it’s interactive. So [we’re] having music trivia be part of the newsletter and then music discovery.

The media landscape is not great right now. In traditional media, a lot of magazines are shut down and newspapers are shutting down. [We’re] talking to music writers to bring them on to write for our newsletter and to give them a platform in the wake of Pitchfork shutting down. Let’s get some of those Pitchfork people to write for Track Star and get their ideas across and help more people celebrate and discover music.

A year ago on YouTube, you said that your mission was to make Public Opinion (the company) “the voice of New York City.” Do you think you’re closer to that goal today?

Yeah, for sure. I think with Public Opinion (the show), it’s very much giving people a microphone and telling stories that aren’t being told anywhere else. We have so many exciting projects in development on that front. It kind of runs the gamut—we could do an hour-and-a-half-long documentary about something really specific or we can do a 30-second conversation with a random person on the street about the Beatles or whatever. That’s also the voice of New York in one way.

We feel like we’re closer to that because we’re continuing to talk to more people and because the platform has grown, we have access to other people in places that we haven’t in the past.

When you view Public Opinion (the show) and Track Star, do you see one being “heavier” than the other?

Public Opinion is like a documentary platform and it’s more intense topics with a smaller, more niche audience. It’s just going to be harder to reach the type of scale—more people turn on the radio and listen to hit pop songs every day than they read the newspaper, right? [Track Star] reaches more people. It’s just a simpler, easier, lower hanging fruit that resonates with people.

I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing or bad thing, or one thing is more important than the other thing, but I definitely think Public Opinion is more serious in a way. But we get as much value out of doing that, maybe more, than we do with Track Star. And the bigger Track Star is, the more opportunity we have to leverage Track Star to get in the door with Public Opinion.

Finally, who’s your dream Track Star contestant?

Bruce Springsteen. It’s going to happen this year. He’s going on tour, we’re gonna get him. He’s gonna be around.

Here are Jack Coyne’s 12 songs.

ABBA Gold is one of the first CDs I owned. No lie, age 9 I was listening to ABBA 24/7. They laid the foundation for modern pop music and just have so many incredible songs. They also have a lot of weird songs and this is one of their weirder ones.

My favorite rock and roll band. I love classic rock and I love country music and this song, to me, represents the best of both genres. Listen to the guitars. Insane.

Stevie mother-f***ing Nicks. Just listen to her voice. It doesn’t get better. I feel it just builds and builds like a train coming towards you at full speed. Perfect song and a perfect band.

I realized that I wanted to become a filmmaker when I saw “Goodfellas” for the first time and a huge part of what moved me so much about that movie was the soundtrack. There’s a few Phil Spector songs in that movie that just blew me away. His production transports you to another era. “Da Doo Ron Ron” isn’t even part of the movie, but it’s all connected in my brain. I just love this 60s girl group sound and I think this is one of the best songs of that genre.

My college roommate introduced me to this album on a road trip to Maine. I’d heard Van plenty of times before through my family. He was a staple, but we never listened to this record. It’s otherworldly. A perfect song and a perfect album.

This song is weird. The drums sound like they’re from a computer, which is weird/ They’re like a classic rock and roll band using synths and computer loops. Tom Petty is at his best when he’s at his weirdest. This song has a real darkness to it. I used it in my senior thesis film. RIP Tom.

My wife and I heard this on the radio one time and neither of us really knew about Gordon Lightfoot, but we fell in love with this song. It’s stalked us ever since and whenever we hear it somewhere, we’re reminded of our love. It’s also a super weird song… I’m starting to sense a trend here…

This is how I discovered Frank Ocean. I read about his mixtape somewhere, so I checked out this song and heard the Eagles sample and was like, “Wow, who is this dude?” It’s still my favorite of all of his songs. It’s beautiful, even better than the original. I think Don Henley sued him because he didn’t get the rights or something. He should have let it fly and gotten on the Frank train.

My guilty pleasure: Kenny Chesney. How can you hate this?

Just my favorite NY rap group ever. They’re just fun. Also the Heatmakerz are my favorite hip-hop producers ever. That style of pitched up soul sampling is my favorite kind of rap beat.

I listen to Otis all the time. No one has more emotion in their voice. It’s just raw power.

Bruce is the man. I’ve seen him live a bunch of times and the dude delivers like nobody else. This song and this album, Nebraska, are different. It’s dark and quiet and understated, but also so beautiful. It speaks volumes about his skill as a writer.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.  Listen to Jack Coyne’s curated 12 Songs playlist below.

Previous
Previous

Digging for the diaspora with Deb Oh

Next
Next

Making art that resonates with Alan Porter